Themes


	Comments from the film illustrating different themes: The land wars are class wars The “land wars” are all about money Those concerned about land preservation are just anti-growth Growth is good/growth is progress Growth carries costs/not always good Growth allows people to have choices in where they live People have a right to do with their land as they choose – private property rights Owning land includes responsibilities to the community – public property rights What is the value of land? - from an economic perspective What is the value of land? – from a preservationist perspective What is the value of land? -- the changing value/meaning of land What is the value of land? -- competing values of the land What is the value of land? -- from a farmer’s perspective Land and community identity Contrasting visions for the future How debates about land policies affect people Impact of development on farmers and farming The myth vs. the reality of farming Settling and developing land is foundation of American character On being a farmer On being a developer The land wars are class wars Kain: I think what we have in Woodford County between the haves and the have nots...I feel like the Save the Lander issue against the rest of us has, it has somewhat of a class issue to it. I feel and a lot of people feel here in this community that they want to keep us at a certain level, that they don’t want us to rise above a certain level....they would like to keep it as some type of baronial system, a colony sort of thing. And they’ve done a pretty darn good job of doing that.” Kain: My dad was a tenant farmer who successfully rose up to own his own farm...I started in business over 40 years ago after getting out of the Air Force. I’ve been in the car business for 42 year no and I’ve been fortunate enough to be successful in the car business; it was not easy.....[I] feel like I’ve been very successful in bringing my family along and that in some ways, after we get to a certain point, we seem to not be able to go any further because of the issue that face us in this community...I do sympathize with the people out here that are trying to get ahead and can’t because of the limitation that are put on us by the Save the Landers and people of this view in Woodford County. Baker: You still have a very elite group in this county that do not want to accept that proposal (on rural residential development). They want to modify it every chance they get...Any time anyone goes in with a farm or a development in this county...you still have the same group there opposing this development that our plan was supposed to take care of, and they oppose it on every front. Baker: The strong opposition (to development) is from people who have lived in this county for years or that have got farms that have been in their families for years, have inherited what they’ve got. I mean I’m not saying they don’t work to make a living, but basically if you took away what they’d inherited, they wouldn’t be any different from me. They’d be out there working every day to make ends meet. And it was a hard pill to swallow to go to these meetings and you have these aristocrats standing up there screaming in your face that your greedy and that you’re ruining the county when they could have gone right down to the same sale I went to and bought the piece of property and left it sitting there. Baker: I just know that it really irritates me that if I want to get out here and work my tail off and this is what I do for a living, and work 12, 14, 16, hours a day, and make my money and I’m paying my taxes and own this piece land. I don’t think somebody that’s inherited 1500 acres or 1000 acres, or 200 acres should sit and tell me that I can’t sell my farm. I darn sure don’t get to go to their farm and go in on it and tell them what to do. Baker: I don’t know, but it’s a hard pill to swallow when you have people that have lived, that have inherited everything they’ve got, standing up there confronting you when you’re holding the mortgage on a farm. You know, 2, 3, 400,000 dollars, you’re just trying to make a living. Baker: I come from a modest background and I don’t have the, you know, I went to college one year and that was about it. I couldn’t afford to go any more so I had to go back to farming. And Libby (Jones) sat down there and told me that I shouldn’t develop this land, you know, that the farm should stay together, it was beautiful, these open spaces, and she just went on and on.....And the thought went through my mind, you know, you’re on a farm that’s been in your family for generations. And I don’t begrudge her that one bit, because it’s a beautiful place. But she was one of the main obstacles that I had to overcome to cure my financial woes and get my life back in order. Baker: As far as where the county is going in 20 years, it’s hard to say. Those old aristocrats are going to be gone in 20 years. And all hell is liable to break loose with the development once they’re gone. I don’t know. I don’t know if the ones that are going to take their place are going to be as staunch in their beliefs or not. But we’ve got an awfully good county and we’ve got a lot of people here that care where the county is going. I do myself. (This echoes the following comment as presented in Roderick Nash’s Wilderness and the American Mind (1973): “Robert Wernick asked impatiently in the Saturday Evening Post in 1965 (Nov 6, 1965: “Speaking Out: Let’s Spoil the Wilderness) “Why shouldn’t we spoil the wilderness?” Everything good, in his opinion, depended on spoiling it – and advancing civilization. As for wilderness lovers, `they affect old rumpled clothes, unshaved jaws, salty language; they spit and sweat and boast of their friendship with aborigines.’ Underneath this backwoods veneer, however, Wernick found `decadents, aristocrats and snobs.’ Fortunately, in his opinion, they would soon be obliged to give up their elitist wilderness preserves just as the kings of England had to abandon the royal forests. The `tides of civilization’ would not be denied.” Pg239) Boggs: One of the things that turned me off in the beginning about the coalition was, it appeared to me to be a very elitist group of people....It appeared to me from the beginning that these were the rich people....who had a lot of land and who didn’t want house trailers built next door to them. They wanted people coming in from the mountains to work their tobacco but didn’t want them to stay....But as I became involved with them, I realized that while I do accept that was part of their thinking, it certainly was not all of it. I do honestly believe that most of the people, while they were the landed gentry so to speak, really were concerned with what became of Woodford County. It was not that they didn’t want house trailers built next to their farm. They were concerned with what the culture of Woodford County would be 10 years down the road. Richmond: I am offended by anyone using the crutch of class labels. If you have it, you don’t discuss it, in the first place. In the second place... any discussion of class is usually initiated by people who aren’t what they want to be....I dare say for many, many years it was all we could do to make the mortgage payment on this place. I mean, had we been willing to sell off a few lots or 50 acres back then or something like that, things would have been a whole lot easier. We....never had the money. I see no reason to point that out to anyone. It’s absolutely irrelevant. It’s only relevant to people who want to be something they’re not. Jones: I think to me it’s irrelevant how you have obtained your land. If you’ve inherited it or if you’ve purchased it, you still, if you’re a farmer, you work as hard as you can to be the best steward of that land that you can be, and to enjoy maximum productivity from it if that is your vocation. And for many of us, even though we’ve inherited our land, that is our vocation, and we live by it. It’s not a hobby, it is our vocation. And I think its very important for all of us to understand the obligation we have to our families to be able to pass that equity on, whether we’ve inherited it or whether we’ve purchased it. And future generations will be able to benefit from the land if we’ve taken care of it in either scenario. And for those farmers who want to get out of the farming business, then I think they deserve the full equity on their land whether they’ve inherited it or whether they’ve purchased it. Somebody paid for that land at some point. And I think that all farmers should receive the equity in their land that is inherent with it. But that’s not to say that they have an inherent right to develop that land if it’s not in the communities’ best interest. Jones: Did I farm? Would you like to feel my calluses? See, this is an interesting point you bring up, because I think there is a public perception that when people inherit the land, that they’re not farmers, that they don’t work the land, that they don’t get down in the dirt. It’s an amazing perception to me because I do farm. A period in my life where I was actively farming before my family got involved in politics (1987) I was farming. I was on the farm, farming everyday, driving tractors, putting up hay, vaccinating calves. And that is our livelihood, so it’s....yet there is a perception out there that people who inherit land don’t have that kind of relationship with it which is hard for me to understand. The “land wars” are all about money Kain: I think the big situation between the Save the Landers and those that are not Save the Landers has a lot to do with money. It takes a lot of time, a lot of money, legal fees, things of this nature, people that are developing can’t wait that long. Farmers don’t have the money to fight the issues of this nature, so they keep appealing and appealing and appealing and pretty soon the people that are fighting the Save the Landers just throw their hands up, leave the county, and that’s basically how they win. They just outlast them and it’s a case of who has the money, and who has not the money. Kain: I think one of the big ironies of the Save the Landers in Woodford County is the very fact that the land that I personally have developed out on US 62 or Midway Road and it’s called Lanes View, and adjoins Will Farrish’s Lanes End Farm, is owned or was owned by the present Governor and his wife Libby Lloyd Jones who was then President of the Save the Landers of Woodford County. So it all gets down to really finances, the financial situation or whose horse is gored at the time. These people needed to sell the land and so they sold it to me knowing that I was going to develop that land. And Libby Jones, after the sale of that farm to me retired as Chairman of the Save the Landers. But this land that I bought from them, they knew that I was going to develop this land, that it would be definitely opposed by the Save the Lander and it certainly was opposed by them because it took me seven years after I purchased the land that was already in the comprehensive land (as future residential land) to get it to where we could start building houses on it....They (the Jones’) had bought the farm to create another horse farm and due to the fact that Mr. Jones decided to run for Lt. Governor and evidently needed the cash, he sold the farm to me, and they knew that I would develop this farm. The ironic part of this is that I’ve sat in many many meetings with Charles Baker and he and I have discussed the ironic part that here, they can do this because they needed the money, and here because Charles needs the money, he can’t do it. It’s just the matter of the classes again; they have the money and can get the job done Baker: The irony of all this is after all our confrontations (Libby and I), there’s a piece of property that they had acquired right at the edge of town on Midway Road, next to Will Farish’s property. He owns Lane’s End farm, a beautiful, prestigious horse farm. And they up and sold this piece of property to Jack Kain, who there again is dubbed a developer in this community. And I think they knew what he was going to do with the property. ....there’s a subdivision sitting there. So I guess the irony in it is, the shoe fit better on her foot than it did on my foot. Or, when it’s serving your own purpose or your financial gain, it doesn’t make any difference what some of these people preach or how hard they preach it, if the opportunity comes along they’re just like I am. When it’s good business to sell something for a profit, you sell it for a profit. And I guess my comment to all that is there again, either get on one side of the fence or get on the other, but you don’t walk down the center and jump off one side one day and then get back on the top and jump off on the other side when it suits you financially. And that’s been one of my greatest pet peeves with some of the people that I’ve dealt with. Those concerned about land preservation are just anti-growth Kain: I feel like the Save the Landers do not want any more growth in Woodford County. It’s just as simple as that; they’re satisfied with what it is. Kain: Woodford County has an iron curtain around it. Just as real as the Iron Curtain was in Europe. And that is the fact that things are just not done in Woodford County the way they’re done in our surrounding counties, and anyone coming into this county finds that they are hitting into a true iron curtain. Baker: My ultimate fear of what we (the Task Force) were doing was I would give in from the five acres or ten acres or the way it used to be, to the thinking of the people that were dubbed Save the Landers for a compromise, and after we reached the compromise, then they would not stop. They would come back and keep pushing for less and less development, and I have see that happen. It’s come true. Growth is good/growth is progress Kain: I feel that as a businessman in this community, as an employer, as a person who has brought industry into this community, I feel that it is a duty, a Christian duty, of any community to welcome people into the community and not to build an iron curtain around it. We have fine farms here that these people work on, we have factories here, clean factories, we have all kinds of businesses. But at night, most of the Save the Landers would like for these people to get in their cars and go home. And I just feel like we need to do a better job of being hospitable to these people, to just follow the Christian ethic and let’s open up Woodford County in that respect not to overgrow it, not to overdevelop it or anything of that nature, but just do what’s right. Kain: I think that there’s no doubt that the Save the Landers probably see me as a greedy land developer, and that couldn’t be farther from the truth. All I’m trying to do is to provide business, provide industry and provide homes for the people who work in these industries in Woodford County. I’ve been fortunate enough to be successful. and I’m dedicating my life to trying to do what’s best, as much as I can dictate it, for Woodford County. Kain: I would be doing this (building) even if there wasn’t money in it...I would be doing it anyway because I’ve been fortunate enough through my car business to finance these things and this is sort of a hobby. I like to buy a farm and improve it, sometimes to break it down into smaller packages to have more people to be able to afford it. Kain: We have a wonderful community [and] that is why industry wants to locate here and why it’s important that we get them here. It’s important that we let other counties share in the wealth that these factories bring into the community...So why shouldn’t we be our brother’s keeper and let these people enjoy the benefits of these plants? Baker: When I was a kid, you know that’s all there was here –farms. You had Versailles, a small community, once you got a half-mile out of Versailles there was nothing but farms, just everywhere. And you know talking about my grandfather, even when he was a kid, good gosh, it must have looked like just when Daniel Boone walked into it...There’s places I’ve been, that were farms that now there’s nothing but houses and the horse farms....they’ve been taken out of production. And yes, I feel there’s a little bit of sorrow about the land being gone or being you know, under concrete or stuff like that, but it’s progress. Baker: I mean that’s what the whole nation’s been from the time they built the first fort...that was developing. I don’t care how you look at it, they went in there and picked out a spot and put a fort there and that made a difference. A whole town grew around it. And with our population growing the way it’s growing and everything as fast paced as our world is, you have to be realistic at the same time and not dwell in the past....That’s why I don’t mind being called a developer...I’m trying to look into the future to see that farm that’s five miles out of town right now that looks like it’s in the boonies, is going to be town 20 years from now. It’s just going to be, but most people haven’t seen or don’t want to remember or haven’t paid enough attention to what’s happened around them....they don’t pay attention to the progress that’s going on around them. Until it affects them and their backyard. Then they see it and then they throw a fit. And it’s happening every day and it’s going to continue to happen. You can’t stop it. You don’t necessarily have to like it, but you’re not going to be able to stop it. Growth carries costs/not always good Richmond: We’re fouling our own nest for the dubious trade-off of growth.. And you can’t go back is the situation. I mean, that’s the problem. You cannot go back and say, “Oh gee, that was really stupid 50 years ago.....and I don’t want to be sitting here in 50 years and I probably won’t be, but even in 30 or even in 20, and have to explain to my daughter how I let this happen. Richmond: But it’s kind of like if you have a really gorgeous patch of flowers in the woods and everybody wants to come and see it. You know, pretty soon they’re all standing on the flowers and there are no flowers anymore so nobody wants to come and see it anymore. I mean, that’s kind of like the attraction of the county. Jones: But it really works both ways. It’s tremendously detrimental to farmers because children and dogs, seeing wide open spaces naturally over their own fences and come into your land and chase your livestock and possibly damage crops. You are liable for any injuries that occur on your property and conversely, the normal farming practices of this area in Kentucky can be very damaging to residential dwellers because sometimes we plow at night if the day is too short. The noise level from heavy equipment and the wind picking up, for example, agricultural lime spread on your fields, covers everything in a white dust. And although most people here don’t use heavy chemicals, those who do will be using heavy chemicals next to residential areas and it’s just very incompatible. Those two uses of land are inherently incompatible. Jones: So, it was from the standpoint of people’s quality of life going to be very damaging; and from the standpoint of the community’s fiscal situation, where the communities are trying to serve far-flung residential areas with police and fire protection, with extra school bus transportation....all those are a drain on a county’s economy. That’s why we so advocate that residential lands be developed in a compact area where they can be served cost effectively. Growth allows people to have choices in where they live Kain:I think the Lane’s View project really is akin to the movie of Jimmy Stewart’s famous “It’s a Wonderful Life.” Here’s a fellow with a savings and loan that was trying to provide homes for poor people in a community that they could not afford to live in without it. And in this case here, Lane’s View, we’ve been able to provide just exactly that for hundreds of people in our community that were having to live in counties around us that wanted to live here. And it’s wonderful to drive through that subdivision and to see those people and to see how happy they are, and to see how successful the development is as a result of the demand for this type of house. Richmond: Well, one of the reasons people want to live here is because we still have a reasonably decent quality of life and a reasonably decently low housing density within the county and the rural areas....and that’s why people want to buy it. People have a right to do with their land as they choose – private property rights Kain: People have to have some place to live. It’s a free country, and if I go out here and buy a farm or if you go out here and buy a farm. If you want to cut it into and let your brother or friend have half of it to help you pay for the other half, I see nothing wrong in that. But the Save the Landers say that’s wrong, that you’re in the subdivision business, any time you divide it. And I don’t think you even need to go to the Court House for that, you just need to get an engineer to say hey, I want to cut off 25 or 30 acres here and sell it to my brother. And you can’t do that and you can’t do it here, and that’s not right. They’ve taken away a lot of our constitutional rights, you can’t sell anything here now without having to go to planning and zoning and that’s wrong. Kain: I have a couple of farms and I want to keep them the way they are and I hope to always be able to do it. But I don’t want to tell someone years down the road, you can’t do anything to this farm – because things change, times change, people change, conditions change. ...I like the streams the way they are. I like the trees the way they are....and I certainly don’t want to change that. But a few years from now, somebody might want to change something on the farm, and that won’t be all bad. Baker: [When] the Planning and Zoning decided to suspend the laws as we knew it, they had several public hearings, and I attended all these meetings because I felt like more than anybody else in the community, I had more to lose. I was very upset, very mad. I felt like my rights had been violated, I mean you know they’re telling me I can’t sell a piece of property that I own, that I had bought and paid for, and here’s six people sitting there saying no, you can’t do it, we’re going to make you stop. Baker: I never did understand why the people that lived on the five acre tracts would come up to me and say, `You can’t sell this farm, because we don’t want to look at the houses.’ And my thought was, you bought five acres, that’s all you own, you didn’t buy the whole county, you didn’t buy that field across from you that you’re looking at with the cows or tobacco in it. You bought five acres, just like in the subdivision you buy your house and your lot and that’s all you own. You don’t step across your boundary and tell your neighbor not to plant on the left hand side of the yard! But when you own a farm and people are in the county and they drive up and down the road, they perceive this a lot different. They think that it’s there, it’s been there for thousand of years or hundred of years or ever since they were a kid and that’s the way they remember it and that’s the way it ought to stay. And all of a sudden you divide it or you need some money and you sell part of it off and they think, wow, he’s greedy, he wants to get all out of that land he can. Baker: When you own a piece of land you’ve still got somebody called the government telling you what you can do with it and what you can’t do with it. You don’t really own it. It’s not like your house, you can go in it and you can paint the kitchen blue, you can paint your bedroom green. You own a farm, the government tells you where you can plow, how many years in a row you can plow, what you can do with that piece of property. So you buy it and you pay for it but you have somebody else telling you what you can do with it. And that gets very frustrating at times. Baker: I don’t think government should dictate to you what you should do with your land and if they are going to dictate to you, then they ought to compensate you for it. It’s just the way I feel about the Save the Landers. If they want to look at my farm going down the road and don’t want me to sell it, then set up a fund and put your money in it and I’ll leave it sitting right there so you can look at it when you drive down the road. If you don’t want to put your money where your mouth is, keep your mouth shut. Richmond: I mean I’m as stiff-necked as Harvey is about people telling me what to do with my land. I wouldn’t want somebody to tell me that they didn’t think I ought to have a hog lot next door to...somebody’s house. And they can’t tell me to do that. But if the law says I can’t have a pig lot, then that’s a different matter. Jones: Well, it’s certainly part of the American dream to own land. I think everybody grows up with the hope, not everyone but a good portion of our population grows up with the hope of owning a house, owning land. And I think that American dream is often construed to mean that once you own the land, that you do have inherent right to do with it anything that you choose to. And it’s easy to understand that mentality because people work very hard to own land. Some work their entire lives to own land, and when they finally do own a farm or a piece of property around their house, they do want to maintain control of it. Jones: I think that the new concept, and certainly one that we are using locally and statewide in Kentucky is the concept of purchase of development rights, where the community or state can actually purchase the development rights from a farmer allowing that farmer to retain their land, having all the rights and responsibilities of ownership, but be assured that every future generation will have that land open and available as a community resource. That’s a fair and just way, in my opinion, that this land can be protected; and if we don’t do that, I think we will be in a worse case scenario because you can’t regulate people unfairly. You can’t not allow them to be able to have the equity in their land that they deserve. And so I think that the concept of purchase of development rights is the answer, and the worst-case scenario is if we don’t fund that type of program that will protect our open spaces for all of us and the future. Owning land includes responsibilities to the community – public property rights Boggs: My personal feeling is that we are in the midst now of having to re-evaluate rights in the United States of America. When they closed down the frontier, the rights thing changed....We did not accept that and have not accepted it yet. But we must accept the fact that rights positions have changed. Therefore, just because I own a piece of ground, because I went out and bought it or my father or grandfather bought it, or however we obtained it, today does not give me the right to do with it however I please. That’s why there’s ordinances on the books, that why all of these things (conflicts) have come about. Richmond: When you want to cash in your land, you want to get the best price you can for it. Well, to me, that’s fine. But there are legal constraints that determine what that best price is going to be and with land, the biggest of those constraints is the law, is what the zoning law says you can do with it. Richmond: To me, when people say they have the right to get the most money they possibly can for their land, even if it’s an inappropriate or not zoned us, to me that’s like me saying, well, I have all these tobacco barns and the price of tobacco is not very good this year, so I’m going to grow marijuana because that will bring me a whole lot of money and I have the right to make the most money from my farm I possibly can. Well, the laws says that’s not legal because we have determined that’s not in the best interest of the community, and that’s why I can’t grow marijuana on this farm. To me, that’s exactly this situation. It has been determined that it’ not in the best interest of the community for certain things to be done with land. Now you can’t have residential development in an agricultural area because it’s not in the best interest of the community, even if it’s in your best interest. Just like it might be to my best interest to grow marijuana, it is not in the best interest of the community, so you can’t do it, that’s why it’s illegal, and that’s a big difference. Richmond: The reason we have government is to protect people from each other’s self-interest...We all have our spheres of operation and we have to do what seems best to us, and where they conflict with one another, we have laws to regulate how we behave. And one of the laws we have to regulate how we behave is zoning laws...I don’t fault Harvey for what he did. I can’t judge any person’s economic pressures or ethical standards in something like that. All I can do is deal with what I feel the laws should be and how they should be applied. Jones: But you have to look at the community aspect. You have to put your plans and your ideas for your land in context of the entire community, because what one property owner does affects everyone around them and everyone in the whole community ultimately. And I think that’s one of the hardest issues that we deal with in land use planning – is to both respect the ideas and dreams of that property owner and yet plan our community so that they truly do represent the best interests of the people that live there. What is the value of land? - from an economic perspective Baker: I’ve never seen a business yet that didn’t try to make a product as efficient as they could, try to save as much money as they could or make as much money off that product. But for some reason, when you farm or own a farm, and you sell it, people think you are greedy, that you are ruining the land. And they don’t look at the house they’re sitting in, they they go home and lay down in and think, wow! This used to be a farm. All they see is a subdivision. They drive into this subdivision that’s got 300 houses that wasn’t always there, at one time it was a farm, somebody sold it and somebody developed it, and that was his right. Baker: I think that land is the best investment anybody in this country can make. Baker: I don’t know how he (my grandfather) feels about the changes but I know that from what I’ve seen the last 10 years since I’ve bought farm land...I’ve seen a lot of opportunities I should have jumped on that I didn’t take. I just didn’t have the guts to do it. And I’m sure he (my grandfather) feels the same way. That he thinks, good gosh, here’s this piece of land that when I was 35 years old, that was then a mile to Versailles, and it’s now worth 10 million dollars that I could have bought. He’s told me of a farm that sold for $200 or $300. And I sit there and my mouth just open and you know I think, daggone, that was a steal. But you got to remember, the depression was going on, that was like probably a million is now to get your hands on that kind of money. I feel the same way myself, now that land $2,000 an acre or $3,000 an acre is a steal, if you can get your hands on the money to buy it. Because they’re not making any more land. That’s the only thing in this world that they’re not making any more of is land, and nobody’s found the ability to do that yet. Boggs: Right now the decision (about how land is used) is made because the developer makes money. He wins and he always wins. And we can fight the fight and we can slow him up and make it expensive for him, but he’s going to win in the end. Always, they always do, because they have something to gain other than emotional, morality, or anything else, they gain financially. Boggs: If Jack Kain were to drive down this road today and offer me five times what I paid for this farm, I would think about it for two or three minutes, and then sell it to him. It’s just that simple. I’m pragmatic as well as idealistic. I would be in farming, but I would take that money and put half of it in CDs and the other part in a farm and do just exactly what I’m doing now. But I’d sure clip his coupon. Jones: It is a widely held attitude that land is a commodity, to be bought and sold on the marketplace, and that its highest and best use should be whatever the market allows. If that’s building a Wal-Mart or building a racetrack for NASCAR, or whatever it is, that the land can be, that the owner of the land can be profited to the maximum amount, than that’s the fair thing to do with that land. But I think that’s a very very shortsighted attitude, because you have to look at the land as a finite resource and there’s not going to be any more of it made. And therefore, we are compelled to use it for its maximum value for future generations, and not just look at its maximum value for the current owner. By the same token, though, that owner does deserve to be able to receive their equity in their land. What is the value of land? – from a preservationist perspective Richmond: The older landowners who want to sell their land and build houses on five-acre lots and things like that, I can sympathize with them. I mean, they’ve basically viewed their land as part of their portfolio. We don’t. It’s not something that we see as something to buy or sell. It’s not like people who live in town and have a house and you sell your house every three or four years and you buy a new one. And when you figure your net worth, that a huge part of it. That’s not the way we see our land at all. It’s something that we hold in trust for our children. It’s something that we have to improve; that we feel like we need to protect and improve and pass on to them in as good a shape as possible. And as good a shape in a long-term sense, not in a moneymaking annual income producing sense. Richmond: The difference between how I and people like me think about our property as opposed to how people who want to clip their coupons and sell it off as if it were a crop think about it...I think that’s probably the biggest difference. I don’t know why the difference exists. I don’t think it necessarily has anything to do with aesthetics, although it may. I don’t know whether it has anything to do with education, although it may. It seems there are things that I don’t, I can’t put a dollar value on, and I’m sure that there are a lot of other people out there who can a dollar value on those very same things. And that may be the difference in the culture. Jones: I think there’s always a conflict when you have something very precious that is limited. It’s very finite, this land, and there are competing interests for the land, certainly. This is a very desirable place for people to live and work, which we would want it to be. It’s also the best farmland in the world, and so naturally, the agricultural economy here is vitally important to the entire state. So, those two interests collide in the middle with the need to grow and develop and people’s desire to build houses here, and the agricultural community’s desire and need to produce crops. Jones: I think my philosophy of land stewardship came to me by osmosis....I think growing up I was surrounded by people who loved the land and truly cared for it and devoted their lives to it. Not just the owners of the land, but also the people that worked on the land. It’s a way of life. It’s a way of people putting something into their vocation that is larger than they are, because what they’re doing today in terms of land stewardship and protection is going to benefit generations down the road. Jones: I think people feel passionate about the land because without analyzing it they realize they are completely dependent on the land. Perhaps this is a subconscious passion that they have to protect it because it is the source of water, of our food, and beyond that, for our mental well being – people need space. You crowd animals together, all the tests have shown, in a tight compartment and they become hostile and aggressive and some cannibalistic. I don’t think the human species is that far removed. We need open space. We need green space around us. And, when people see that being infringed upon it is cause for them to be passionate. Jones: As the competition for the land becomes greater it involves all of us on a greater level. I mean, people who have never been involved in conservation before, I’m seeing come to the front now because it’s so apparent that if we don’t rally and be assured that we do have the kind of community planning that we need to benefit all of us and keep these beautiful green spaces, that it will be lost permanently. What is the value of land? -- the changing value/meaning of land Baker: Jim [Boggs] did tell me at one meeting that you know, they’re not making any more land. It’s going to all be gone. And it did make me sit down and think about what the country used to be like. We’re just a little over 200 years old and look at what has happened since Daniel Boone’s time. And if a person sat down and thought about it very much he’d be scared to death. He would go out and try to buy any kind of piece of land he could get cause it’s not going to be there. And that’s one reason I bought another farm, and I’ll probably continue to buy land because there’s not any more of it made. But you’ve got to have the guts and the courage to go out there and buy it and take on that debt and try to pay for it. Jones: Well, now that we’ve hit the 21st century, I think people are going to have to look differently at land and how we can manage land as a community so that everybody’s interests are served. In the old days, when Daniel Boone first came over the Cumberland Mountains, there was infinite land. It would appear that we could go on endlessly devouring land – buying farms, selling farms, developing cities. We’ve gotten to the point in our history now, with the population expanding dramatically. In this new century I think the world’s population is to double in the next four years – double. Land is going to be the most precious resource that we have, and if we don’t look at managing it and the community’s best interest, future generations won’t ever have the benefits that we have enjoyed in terms of open space, green space, recreational lands, and agricultural lands where we can grow food for our nation. What is the value of land? -- competing values of the land Jones: Well, that goes back to what this conflict for the land, this competition for the land is all about. And it is about the American dream, because for some people it’s the opportunity to live on land that they own, and for some of us it’s to be agricultural, for others of us it is to be able to benefit monetarily in the highest possible way from that land and to then turn that money over and invest in more land and continue to use your land investments as your vocation. And I think that is certainly being done. For those people that are investing in land, selling it, marketing it, and in many cases taking out of agriculture, they are realizing their dream, the American dream of being able to benefit their families in a monetary way. And you can be critical of that. But what you have to look at is what is best for the community, and that goes back again to: Does any of us really own the land? Or, are we stewards of it? And, do we have to look at what’s best for the community interest and for future generations? Jones: I think there are two different public attitudes toward land. There’s the attitude that land is a precious, natural resource that is essential to life and the best land must be protected for future generations. And another public attitude is, they don’t think in terms of the productivity of the land or the quality of the soils – that is foreign to them. But they just look at the land as a community resource that they can enjoy its scenic attributes. And they do understand that it does enhance their quality of life, that they are living in the Bluegrass of Kentucky as opposed to Podunk USA, where there is no signature industry, where there is no natural resource that is renowned for its scenic qualities and its beauty. And I think both of those attitudes are important to gel in a concept of stewardship for “ What do we do with the land? What is its best use?” What is the value of land? -- from a farmer’s perspective Boggs: When you become dependent on the land, when your livelihood becomes dependent on the land, then you take on a totally new perspective of what goes on around you. Dogs coming in, children climbing fences, people objecting to pesticide drift if you have pesticide (but being organic we don’t). But all these things you begin to think about in an entirely different light than you do. It’s kind of like watching the weather on the afternoon news. To most people it’s, oh shoot; it’s going to rain this weekend. But if it’s dry, thank God’s it’s going to rain this weekend to us, we live and die by it. And the same thing with the five-acre guy....it’s nice if everything goes well, but if it doesn’t, it’s no big deal. And so, if you’re not willing to make the commitment that, hey, life is a big deal, the land is a big deal. Preserving it is a big deal. Then I don’t believe you belong out here and I don’t think you should have the right to come out here. Jones: I would describe Woodford County as paradise...This land....has been in my family for seven generations now. Our children are seventh generation farmers, and that is a remarkable blessing. And to us, this land is the best in the world, and I think its been compared by experts to the quality of the Nile Valley. It’s unsurpassed in its fertility and production capability, so we are truly, truly lucky to be here. Jones: Well, of course, not all soils are created equal, and there is a vast difference in some parts of the county in terms of the quality of the soil.... The southern end of the county is much more shaley, rocky, you have high cliffs, limestone cliffs surrounding the river, and there really is a difference in the quality of the soil. But that’s not to say that there’s not some very good farmland in the southern part of the county, too. I would say the vast majority of Woodford County land is either classified prime or statewide important in terms of agricultural production. Jones: Now some people are already saying agriculture is finished in the United State, that it is cheaper and more cost-effective to grow land overseas. However, I think that there is going to be a tremendous backlash to that because Americans want their food grown locally, where they can control its safety, to know what sort of chemicals have been used on it or not. And it’s gonna be ever so more healthy to grow our own food in this country and we will have the benefits of being able to use our agricultural products in the balance of payments for foreign lands. And so it would be a terrible travesty to take that attitude and think that we can develop every square inch of the United State, but we’re headed in that direction if we don’t take concrete steps to protect farmland. Jones: I certainly understand a farmer who is struggling, feeling the need to be able to receive the full equity in the land, and its only fair, I mean farmers worked their whole lives on a piece of property, they’ve put their sweat and tears into it. It’s the toughest business there is, and when it’s time for them to retire, it’s understandable that they would want to have as much equity in that property or that they just want to go out of business, they want to have a new career, that they’d be able to have as much equity returned to them in that land as possible. Jones: A phrase you frequently hear in zoning ordinances, in zoning meetings, is the highest and best use of the land. And if you have the best soils and the greatest productivity and absolute incomparable scenic attributes, you have to say that the highest and best use of that land is to leave it alone. Land and community identity Jones: The original proposal for the 125-house subdivision in the heart of Woodford County was absolutely a crisis and that certainly was the catalyst for widespread community activism. Everybody suddenly realized that Woodford County was vulnerable, and that if we didn’t take a stand we would become an extension of Lexington. And being strategically located between Lexington and Frankfort, the state capital, that was really an obvious sandwich situation where if we did not take a stand and do it quickly, that it would be one town, that there would be one huge suburb between those two metropolitan areas. Jones: But I think our greatest fear in Woodford County has always been that Woodford County would totally lose its identity and become a bedroom community for either Lexington or Frankfort, or just part of this huge metropolitan uni-city that would grow into one. That was always the tremendous fear, and I think one of the reasons we’ve worked so hard is because we realized how vulnerable --more so than any other satellite county to Lexington because Frankfort is next door too -- we were the most vulnerable. Contrasting visions for the future Kain: I know that the Save the Landers just do not represent the feelings of the entire community, that the majority are for good balanced growth, for Christian principles, to be their brother’s keeper. Kain: The other side of the Save the Landers ..people who are wanting balance...we don’t want to destroy our county. We like the quality of life we have here and we want to improve it. Jones: I think the worst case scenario is if the people become apathetic and think that its hopeless, that the market is going to prevail in terms of development and that we don’t have a chance to try to envision the kind of community, the kind of local community that the people who live there want. Jones: I thing the worst case scenario for Central Kentucky is if this vital incredibly beautiful remarkably productive land is covered with concrete from one end of Central Kentucky to the other. The best land we have in the nation. There’s none better. If we cover it with concrete so that there is no more and central Kentucky, the famed Bluegrass, looks like anyplace, anywhere. Jones: I can’t think of anything more tragic than to lose what we have in Woodford County in terms of the best land on the planet for growing food and fiber; and for this incredible scenic beauty that draws people from all over the world to come here and to spend tourist dollars, which benefits the community; and this quality of life that everybody benefits from, whether they live in the country or live in town. Everyone benefits from Woodford County’s beautiful open space. So the thought of that being covered with concrete, which will surely happen if we don’t take substantial steps to protect it, would be a tremendous loss. How debates about land policies affect people Baker: [Then] the Planning and Zoning officials decided that it was time to change the way the county was being subdivided .... and so they decided they would put a stop to the five acres and stop all development until they came up with a better plan. Well, in the meantime, here’s Charles sitting here with a huge mortgage and I’m anticipating selling these five-acre tracts. I close the deal on the farm and I have two tracts sold, just boom, right off the bat, and I think this is great; I’ve recouped $70,000 of my investment. I go to the Court House to get the deeds made out and I’m told that I can’t sell these five-acre tracts because the law has changed. Well, needless to say I was really ticked and concerned, so I go to talk to an attorney.... Boggs: They needed someone who truly was a full time farmer as a spokesman. I can talk and so I was just sort of chosen simply by elimination as their spokesman and I agreed to do it, not knowing what I was going to get in to. But knowing full sell that what we had and the process that was going on then was not good. I mean, you had two factions tearing the county apart, going in totally opposite directions, with no middle ground. Boggs: I felt like there had to be a better way of coming up with a solution than the fight that was going on. I mean, every time Fiscal Court would have a meeting, there are 300 people, half of which are shouting the other was – you pest – what used to be friends on the sidewalk downtown they almost crossed the street to get away from you. It was technically dividing the county into two camps, and no matter how the things came out; I knew that had to be wrong. Jones: Well, I think self-preservation is at the root of the conflict between the opposing forces of developing land and wanting to protect if for agriculture. Certainly, for a farmer it is our livelihood. We are completely dependent upon the land and its value as a production, as an industry, as a factory to grow what the community needs but what we benefit from as we sell our crops. I think self-preservation for people in the development business. The builders, that is their livelihood, that is their vocation, so naturally, they want to build as much as rapidly as they can, wherever they can obtain land cheaply. And historically, the further you get out from established communities, the cheaper the land is, so they are immediately infringing upon the agricultural communities. And so there you have an inherent conflict immediately; both sides wanting really to preserve their own vocations, their own way of living. Impact of development on farmers and farming Boggs: Basically, the thing about this issue that aroused me and made me want to come out of my hiding was that their development interfered with my livelihood. I want to leave them alone and they leave me alone and everybody is cool. But they didn’t leave me alone, because if a development builds up next to my farm or even close to my farm.....There are two things that every development has in common, one is children and the other is dogs, both of which interfere with my farming. The dogs kill my sheep, the children leave my gates open, they fall in my pond, and on and on and on, so that I have legal liabilities. So I just didn’t want them close to me. And when they start talking about opening up for development, then, I’m opposed to that not only because I don’t think it’s good. I personally don’t think growth is good, I can see no reason for growth. I can see only bad things coming out of growth, but I’ve been attacked and probably rightfully so for that position. But more than that, this actually was cutting into my income. If I had planned to be in the sheep business, I couldn’t have dog coming in and wiping out my sheep, and so I wanted to stop as much development as I could, for that reason as well as others. Boggs: There’s the classic case of the farmer in Indiana who was trying to plow his fields late at night because that’s the only time he had to plow, and the people in the subdivision actually got an injunction that he could not plow after 10:00 at night. In other words, a subdivision and a farm don’t mix. Richmond: My position in the conflict is one of self-defense, because I see my own point of view and that of people that think like I do as resisting aggression against a lifestyle that we have earned, and feel that we would like to maintain. The myth vs. the reality of farming Boggs: The people come out and they park here and what they want is five acres with a pristine farm around them. They don’t want to see any blood. They don’t want to see death. They don’t want to smell manure. They want it like it is in the movies. Unfortunately, life isn’t like that. There’s blood and there’s stink, and there’s a lot of things that you accept as farmers, but the people who come out here don’t want. They want to turn the children loose. They think, why, I’ve watched Lassie. I’ve watched all these movies. Everything is pretty and pristine, so my children can romp across the little pastures. They don’t realize that the pond doesn’t have a bottom in it; that horses kick; that cows run over children and don’t care one bit about it. And when that happens, they come to the farmer and say, hey, you owe us for this child, you know now all we got to do is figure how much it’s worth. And it’s harder to figure what they’re worth because there’s no stockyard price on them you know. Settling and developing land is foundation of American character Baker: After talking to [my grandfather] and growing up around him, I told him I though I was born a century too late because we’d sit and talk about people claiming land and staking out land and stuff like that. And I told him if I was born then I never would have been home. I would have been out staking out land and trying to get what I could get. Baker: I mean that’s what the whole nation’s been from the time they built the first fort...that was developing. I don’t care how you look at it, they went in there and picked out a spot and put fort there and that made a difference. A whole town grew around it. And with our population growing the way it’s growing and everything as fast paced as our world is, you have to be realistic at the same time and not dwell in the past....That’s why I don’t mind being called a developer...I’m trying to look into the future to see that farm that’s five miles out of town right now that looks like it’s in the boonies, is going to be town 20 years from now. It’s just going to be, but most people haven’t seen or don’t want to remember or haven’t paid enough attention to what’s happened around them....they don’t pay attention to the progress that’s going on around them. Until it effects them and their backyard. Then they see it and then they throw a fit. And it’s happening every day and it’s going to continue to happen. You can’t stop it. You don’t necessarily have to like it, but you’re not going to be able to stop it. On being a farmer Baker: When I grew up I never had much doubt as to what I was going to do. I wanted to be a farmer....growing up on a farm you know it kind of gets in your blood and you can’t just walk away from it. I held a couple of jobs after I first got married working inside in a factory and it was like being in prison to me. I could not stand it. And so I never had any doubt that I wanted a farm...You know it’s as hard a work as you’ll ever do, but you’re your own boss, you don’t have to punch a time clock, you make your own decisions, and you get to reap the benefits of those decisions, or you have to withstand the failures, one or the other, and that’s what make me my own individual. Baker: I have watched my friends that I have that worked their jobs; they go on vacations, go do things. And I go back out to the farm. But I’ve kind of got burned out and I’m tired of it. I’m ready for a change.....You know I set back and you go in at night and you watch the television and everything you see is negative about tobacco. Most everything you see is negative about farming in general. And it’s a hard, hard life. I’ve cut a finger off, I’ve crushed a foot, I’ve messed my body up. I’ve been told I won’t walk when I’m 40, that I’ll have to have a cane. I’ve got two little boys, one 6 and one 2, and the thoughts of them having to do for a living what I do absolutely makes me cringe....[my oldest son wants to be] outside, on the land which he loves. He would rather be out here every day then he would be in school. I saw that when he was four years old. I told my wife, I’m doing the worst thing possible for my kids. I’m raising them on a farm because that’s all they’re ever going to want to do and when they’re my age there’s not going to be any farms. Boggs: I myself, many years ago was the one who was working at a 9 to 5 job in middle America, trying to save up enough money to move out into the country to a five acre plot with a big lawn mower and roto tiller, two dogs and turn them loose. I was that person. When I got here, though, I found it is not like it looked from the other side. There is a lot more to living in the country than meets the eye.....But as long as you have that Friday paycheck it’s still entirely different than when you come and don’t have the Friday paycheck and must depend on things coming off of that farm or land to take care of your expenses, then life takes on a totally different aspect. Boggs: In my discussions with the anti-development group of people, the one thing that I tried to point out, and I firmly believe this, is that if they can save farmers, they don’t have to worry about saving farmland. There is not a true farmer in this county or anywhere else that will sell his land if he doesn’t have to. He will farm. I mean it’s part of us; it’s that old Indian ethic. I mean...the reason that Harvey (Jones) wanted to sell his land or the reason that Mac wants to sell his land, everybody, and some I’ll want to sell mine, is we don’t have anybody to carry on. Now all of us would rather have a child or somebody within the family who would come in and continue on what we’re doing, that not being the case, then what are you going to to do but sell? But, I just can’t imagine a farmer who would sell his land if he didn’t have to. Jones: Our children will be the seventh generation to live on this land and whereas I don’t ever want to tell them what they must do with this legacy, as no one ever told me what to do with this legacy, I would hope that they would be part of a continuum into the future of farmers that will protect it and love it and care for it. Now if that should not happen, I truly hope that they will take whatever steps are necessary to put a permanent covenant on the land that will protect it in perpetuity for whoever owns it. And, I believe we not have the tools to do that. On being a developer Baker: The opposition I ran into most of all were the people that lived in town and on the five-acre tracts that they had bought in this community, and here I’d grown up. I was 27 years old, and I’d grown up on a farm and all I’d ever done was farm and all of a sudden Charles Baker was dubbed a developer. And it really ticked me off that I was marked that way because all I was trying to do was buy a farm and get it affordable to where I could keep it and farm. Nobody can go out and buy and entire farm and pay for it unless they’ve been at it a long Baker: This particular lady lives on a farm with her mother, 400 acres, she will inherit that farm and has never had to get out there and work to pay for a farm. She stuck her finger right up under my nose and looked me right in the eye and she said she was sick and tired of listening to me talk about money. That I was a developer and I was greedy and that’s all that there was to me. It made the hair stand up on the back of my neck, cause I got out there and worked on that farm every day, and I thought the last thing I was was greedy. Baker: I consider myself a good businessman. I bought the farm to sell part of it to make a turnover to have a cheap farm, and I tried to explain that to her but she didn’t look at it that way, so I used another scenario. I said, what happens when these big companies go out and buy up other companies, they consolidate them and they lay off 1500 workers, and you’ve got 1500 people out of work? I said, that’s good business. .... I said, but I can go buy a piece of land to sell it for a profit and I’m greedy! I said, now there’s something wrong with that scenario. Baker: I have more or less decided if I can subdivide this farm or when I subdivide this farm that’s probably what I’ll do he rest of my life. I’ll probably keep trying to acquire properties that I think are a good price or in a good location and maybe not put houses on all of them, but if it’s 100 acres, maybe I’ll divide it into two tracts, split it up and sell it. I enjoy that, I enjoy what I think is a gift that I have is being able to look at a piece of property and have a vision of what it can be. A lot of people look at a 20 acre field and they say, that’s a 20 acre field, that’s the way it’s been and that’s the way it’s going to stay. And I can look at it and say, well, boy, that’s make a nice driving range for people who like to play golf or something like that. Baker: I bought this farm with the intention to subdivide it. That is the sole reason I bought it. I didn’t buy it to raise tobacco on it or build a house on it or farm it the rest of my life. I bought it to subdivide it. And so I feel like I’m headed right back into the fight again with the people that are opposing things of this nature....I hope this time it goes smoother because this piece of property is in the comprehensive plan. It was planned, put in the plan to be developed...so that’s the reason I bought this particular piece of land Richmond: It’s what [Reverend Martin Niemoeller] said about the Nazi’s: First they came for the Communists and I was not a communist, so I didn’t say anything. And then they came for the Jew, and I wasn’t a Jew, so I didn’t say anything. And then they came for the Roman Catholics, and I wasn’t a Catholic, so I didn’t say anything. And then, when they came to get me, there was nobody left to defend me.” Well, that’s kind of the way it goes with this. It’s 50 acres at a time. The usual pattern has been, if it’s not next door to me, I won’t do anything about it....I mean, we drive by it all the time, but it doesn’t really impinge on us every day. So they, the enemy, can take what they want in little bites. I mean, they gobble up a little bit at a time in 10 acres or 50 acres or 100 acres, or even a couple of 300 acres. Because if it isn’t right in front of you, you’re not going to do anything about it. That how counties go down the drain. Richmond: They never sleep, the developers, they never sleep. They’re always chipping away like a little ant at a rubber tree plant, because it’s their income and they just, they’re at all the meetings. I have a job, a farm, and a five year old. And they know that, they count on it Richmond: People like Jack Kain and Charles Baker are people who want to make money as quickly as possible and preferably legally. If they didn’t want to make it legally, they’d be running coke or something like that. But they want to make as much money as they can as quickly as they can. They’re businessmen....If you have a county government or a county citizenry who’s not ready to stand up and put the brakes on something, then the developers will cut up and build on every single available square foot of property they can get their hands on that they think they can put up a sign on and sell. And that’s what these people are doing. Now we have an attractive product in Woodford County because we’re close enough to Lexington, we’re close enough to Frankfort, we’re close enough to Georgetown. We are a very desirable commodity. That makes us a prime target for these people. The most dangerous ones are the ones with local ties, like Jack Kain because they know everybody, they’re all good old buddies and half of them are in business with each other....developers don’t come from Lexington and want to develop land in Woodford County because it’s hard to get the zoning through. But the local guys can do it and can make a lot of money because people want to live here. Richmond: I don’t fault them (the developers) for that (building). It’s like sharks have to eat, crocodiles have to eat. I don’t want them eating me, but it doesn’t make them bad sharks or crocodiles. These are not bad businessmen, they’re just, they need to be stopped.

Comments from the film illustrating different themes: